As a result of the Ken Ham controversy with GHC, several groups and pages surfaced in Facebook (of course they did). I joined the 'Christian Homeschoolers Taking a Stand' page which was created for homeschoolers that are standing together for Biblical curriculum. I was perplexed when an individual put up a post to "warn" homeschoolers of a "dangerous" movement. What could it possibly be? The Patriarchy movement. Didn't I warn you that this is a hot button?
Let me start by saying this, God does not like division among His children. My purpose is not to re-live the tale, but rather show you just how detrimental gossip can be for the giver as well as the receiver. I also want to acknowledge that I agree that "dangers" need to be exposed - absolutely! With that said, there is a very fine line between "exposing dangers" and being divisive (slander and gossip) and we have to be discerning. I have found that people are all too quick to be "divisive" in the name of "exposing" dangers. If you are in the position of "exposing," make sure it's being done with primary evidence and not emotional rhetoric.
Mr. Ham provided a really good example of doing this. Mr. Ham provided the person whom he was exposing (their) own documents, the individual's videos where he (specifically) was saying the things that were alarming. Thus leaving it to the hearer to continue to explore that which he presented and line it up with Scripture. That is a sound and Biblical way of "exposing" things that need to be heard.
In Proverbs 6:16-19, God speaks of the things He *hates*, the fact that God *hates* something should make every Christian keenly aware of what He hates and realize that when tasked to "expose" anything you need to follow the Matthew principle (Matthew 18:15) not toss around emotional hyperbole. It's hard, I know!! Sometimes I am just so fired up, I am ready to let that person "have it" and let's be perfectly clear, that by "have it" I mean "let everyone know what they did to me." LOL! Just trying to keep it real.
Likewise, we (Christians) should not be quick to listen to "dangers" unless there's primary evidence to support it. I find that the people that visit these websites / forums are all to eager to jump on a bandwagon and attach themselves to a person's emotional baggage; this does not serve the body of Christ, it's divisive. Especially when the receiver of said information does not have any direct experience with the issue. They have now become the caretaker for a person's unresolved anger. What a heavy load to carry.
I am a firm believer of "on the essentials unity, the rest love." There are very few essentials and too many times we get wrapped up in arguments over what God is convicting one person (or group) to do and the other person (or group) doesn't carry that conviction. Is it okay to share your convictions? By all means, yes! I believe God uses other people to speak to us. However, you cannot hold others accountable to what God is calling you to do in your life. Let's establish the essentials which are very clear in Scripture.
The rant continued, I'll spare you the details. I was trying to get to the bottom of what her real issue was. When emotions are flaring, I like to seek out the facts. I went to Vision Forum's statement of doctrine and found nothing anti-Semitic. I went to Chalcedon (Rushdoony) and again nothing anti-Semitic. I also looked up "Christian reconstructionist" and found this --
Here's the bottom line of her issue and why when she hears "patriarchy" her alarms go off. To paraphrase her, she suffered from abuse at the hands of the Patriarchy movement, while not all bad, she wanted others to be aware of issues that can arise if their spouse has issues of their own and may try to justify ungodly behaviors in the name of submission.
Here's my bottom line -- Abuse can happen anywhere. Christians (for the most part) are lazy. We forget that God says He wants us to love Him with all of heart, MIND and soul. Just because you go to church doesn't mean you don't pick up your Bible. You still need to READ your Bible. The pastor of your church is not the Messiah!
My husband & I were victims of poor leadership and it wasn't a "dominion-oriented" church either. It was a regular Christian church. One of the elders was very domineering and steering my husband to dominate me all in the name of submission. In addition, the elder was misusing my husband's confidentiality. My husband and I met with the pastor directly to determine where this individual was getting this from. After a meeting with two other elders and the pastor and upon hearing *directly* from the pastor's mouth -- "well, he's an elder I have to agree with him" we quietly left that church. We didn't create websites, nor did we gossip about them, etc. We were hurt. Our marriage was in shambles so we prayed for GOD to provide. He did, of course He did. God handled the situation and He didn't need my help, shocking, I know!
Then there's the other extreme. We helped plant a church and they wanted to be "seeker-sensitive" which I can agree with but when being seeker-sensitive is used to "justify" playing Metallica/Pink Floyd, etc. in church; I'm sorry, but that's not being seeker sensitive. That's a concert with a "good" lecture. It's our role to bring Jesus INto our lives make Him part of our weekday, not make our weekday part of His day. Naturally, I brought it to their attention and I was "accused" of legalism. Do I believe any of these folks are going to burn in hell, no! Of course not and I didn't create websites or forums dedicated to talking about them either.
In the above scenarios, one type of church is focused on rules and performance and the other extreme is making people feel comfortable about their sin. I believe both scenarios set people up for failure. Consequently, if you are not reading your Bible and you are relying on a pastor (man = sinner) to tell you how to live, rather than reading it from the Creator's own mouth, well then inevitably you will end up on one of these forums with your story. I do not mean to patronize anyone or trivialize any one's pain; to the contrary, I've been to both of these "extremes" and I simply speak from experience.
The problem I have with these websites is that they lack *primary evidence* meaning direct interaction with the people they have their gripe with. No one wants to confront their offender, they just want to gossip about it. Or, if they do have *direct evidence* (I use that term lightly), it's as if they can't stop reliving it. A lot of times the complaint is about the fact that their spouse followed a "leader's preaching." The one ingredient that is missing in these websites is...context! *PAUSE* If you have a loose canon for a spouse that already has issues and they hear "dominion," oh my goodness, that is a volcano waiting to erupt!! They don't hear the responsibility and the accountability that they have before God, they here "me Tarzan, you Jane" and that coupled with any context the woman brings to the table well, it's a disaster. To make leaders responsible for the missing context is irresponsible and unloving.
When it comes to the patriarchy movement, do I agree with every thing that comes out of their mouths? Well, let me be very clear, I don't agree with everything any person says. If I did I wouldn't be an individual. I respect these men, but I am also smart enough to recognize when something is an area in which God has convicted them to obey. If someone wants to eat pork (or not), wants to wear only dresses (or pants), has 20 kids (or two), etc. those things have nothing to do with the essentials of the faith. I won't be a stumbling block for them and in the same spirit, I won't accept that just because God told you to do something means I have to. God works on each of us individually, collectively we worship Him. I am "too conservative" for some and "too liberal" for others. I came to terms with that, and this is just perfect because it's a personal walk with Jesus, not group therapy. Amen!
Consequently, when I see (hear) people speaking from a "bitter" place, I am very cautious. You should be too. There's *always* context and without context you cannot make wise choices. I want to hear from the person that said it, not the person that misinterpreted it. Besides, starting websites about fellow Christians with whom's lifestyle you don't agree with is just hateful.
My prayer is that people (especially the ladies) use their critical thinking skills and when someone is quick to present "dangers" to you. Ask them to define their terms and direct you to primary evidence. As "appetizing" as the gossip (websites) may be, they are divisive and do not edify the body; it's more like empty calories. Remember unless you are tasked with mediation, you still only have one side of the story. If you want to do something productive, pray for healing and reconciliation. Division is not from God. Redirect the individual to cast their burdens on the One that can handle it and heal their heart. Vengeance belongs to the Lord and God is still on the throne, Amen!
"Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers." ~ Ephesians 4:29
“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves." ~ Matthew 10:16
Let me start by saying this, God does not like division among His children. My purpose is not to re-live the tale, but rather show you just how detrimental gossip can be for the giver as well as the receiver. I also want to acknowledge that I agree that "dangers" need to be exposed - absolutely! With that said, there is a very fine line between "exposing dangers" and being divisive (slander and gossip) and we have to be discerning. I have found that people are all too quick to be "divisive" in the name of "exposing" dangers. If you are in the position of "exposing," make sure it's being done with primary evidence and not emotional rhetoric.
Mr. Ham provided a really good example of doing this. Mr. Ham provided the person whom he was exposing (their) own documents, the individual's videos where he (specifically) was saying the things that were alarming. Thus leaving it to the hearer to continue to explore that which he presented and line it up with Scripture. That is a sound and Biblical way of "exposing" things that need to be heard.
In Proverbs 6:16-19, God speaks of the things He *hates*, the fact that God *hates* something should make every Christian keenly aware of what He hates and realize that when tasked to "expose" anything you need to follow the Matthew principle (Matthew 18:15) not toss around emotional hyperbole. It's hard, I know!! Sometimes I am just so fired up, I am ready to let that person "have it" and let's be perfectly clear, that by "have it" I mean "let everyone know what they did to me." LOL! Just trying to keep it real.
Likewise, we (Christians) should not be quick to listen to "dangers" unless there's primary evidence to support it. I find that the people that visit these websites / forums are all to eager to jump on a bandwagon and attach themselves to a person's emotional baggage; this does not serve the body of Christ, it's divisive. Especially when the receiver of said information does not have any direct experience with the issue. They have now become the caretaker for a person's unresolved anger. What a heavy load to carry.
I am a firm believer of "on the essentials unity, the rest love." There are very few essentials and too many times we get wrapped up in arguments over what God is convicting one person (or group) to do and the other person (or group) doesn't carry that conviction. Is it okay to share your convictions? By all means, yes! I believe God uses other people to speak to us. However, you cannot hold others accountable to what God is calling you to do in your life. Let's establish the essentials which are very clear in Scripture.
- Triune God ~ Father, Son & Holy Spirit
- God created the heavens and the earth
- Virgin birth
- Jesus' death and resurrection ~ He paid the penalty for our sins
- Salvation is by grace not works ~ there's nothing we can do to earn it
Not a thing un-Biblical about the man being the head of the home, courtship, being out of debt, modesty, family worship. I am all for sheltering our children. Amen! I have big problem with any movement based on Rushdoony and the church replacing Israel.
Christian Reconstructionism is a religious and theological movement within Protestant Christianity that calls for Christians to put their faith into action in all areas of life, within the private sphere of life and the public sphere as well.I asked for primary evidence, by that I wanted to hear (video or audio) and/or read a document in which the patriocentric leadership espouses these views. For a moment there I felt like I was trying to nail jello to a tree. This individual kept using these terms (patriarchy, replacement, and reconstructionism) as interchangeable terms, and they are not. Therefore, I was really having a hard time ascertaining what exactly was the issue. Clearly there was some pain involved here, especially when one is re-directing people to websites and forums that (in my opinion) promote gossip and slander. Thankfully, in between posts I prayed. God is GOOD! We took it offline and managed to have a heart-to-heart discussion. We each shared some past hurts and we each learned a little something from each other.
Here's the bottom line of her issue and why when she hears "patriarchy" her alarms go off. To paraphrase her, she suffered from abuse at the hands of the Patriarchy movement, while not all bad, she wanted others to be aware of issues that can arise if their spouse has issues of their own and may try to justify ungodly behaviors in the name of submission.
Here's my bottom line -- Abuse can happen anywhere. Christians (for the most part) are lazy. We forget that God says He wants us to love Him with all of heart, MIND and soul. Just because you go to church doesn't mean you don't pick up your Bible. You still need to READ your Bible. The pastor of your church is not the Messiah!
My husband & I were victims of poor leadership and it wasn't a "dominion-oriented" church either. It was a regular Christian church. One of the elders was very domineering and steering my husband to dominate me all in the name of submission. In addition, the elder was misusing my husband's confidentiality. My husband and I met with the pastor directly to determine where this individual was getting this from. After a meeting with two other elders and the pastor and upon hearing *directly* from the pastor's mouth -- "well, he's an elder I have to agree with him" we quietly left that church. We didn't create websites, nor did we gossip about them, etc. We were hurt. Our marriage was in shambles so we prayed for GOD to provide. He did, of course He did. God handled the situation and He didn't need my help, shocking, I know!
Then there's the other extreme. We helped plant a church and they wanted to be "seeker-sensitive" which I can agree with but when being seeker-sensitive is used to "justify" playing Metallica/Pink Floyd, etc. in church; I'm sorry, but that's not being seeker sensitive. That's a concert with a "good" lecture. It's our role to bring Jesus INto our lives make Him part of our weekday, not make our weekday part of His day. Naturally, I brought it to their attention and I was "accused" of legalism. Do I believe any of these folks are going to burn in hell, no! Of course not and I didn't create websites or forums dedicated to talking about them either.
In the above scenarios, one type of church is focused on rules and performance and the other extreme is making people feel comfortable about their sin. I believe both scenarios set people up for failure. Consequently, if you are not reading your Bible and you are relying on a pastor (man = sinner) to tell you how to live, rather than reading it from the Creator's own mouth, well then inevitably you will end up on one of these forums with your story. I do not mean to patronize anyone or trivialize any one's pain; to the contrary, I've been to both of these "extremes" and I simply speak from experience.
The problem I have with these websites is that they lack *primary evidence* meaning direct interaction with the people they have their gripe with. No one wants to confront their offender, they just want to gossip about it. Or, if they do have *direct evidence* (I use that term lightly), it's as if they can't stop reliving it. A lot of times the complaint is about the fact that their spouse followed a "leader's preaching." The one ingredient that is missing in these websites is...context! *PAUSE* If you have a loose canon for a spouse that already has issues and they hear "dominion," oh my goodness, that is a volcano waiting to erupt!! They don't hear the responsibility and the accountability that they have before God, they here "me Tarzan, you Jane" and that coupled with any context the woman brings to the table well, it's a disaster. To make leaders responsible for the missing context is irresponsible and unloving.
When it comes to the patriarchy movement, do I agree with every thing that comes out of their mouths? Well, let me be very clear, I don't agree with everything any person says. If I did I wouldn't be an individual. I respect these men, but I am also smart enough to recognize when something is an area in which God has convicted them to obey. If someone wants to eat pork (or not), wants to wear only dresses (or pants), has 20 kids (or two), etc. those things have nothing to do with the essentials of the faith. I won't be a stumbling block for them and in the same spirit, I won't accept that just because God told you to do something means I have to. God works on each of us individually, collectively we worship Him. I am "too conservative" for some and "too liberal" for others. I came to terms with that, and this is just perfect because it's a personal walk with Jesus, not group therapy. Amen!
Consequently, when I see (hear) people speaking from a "bitter" place, I am very cautious. You should be too. There's *always* context and without context you cannot make wise choices. I want to hear from the person that said it, not the person that misinterpreted it. Besides, starting websites about fellow Christians with whom's lifestyle you don't agree with is just hateful.
My prayer is that people (especially the ladies) use their critical thinking skills and when someone is quick to present "dangers" to you. Ask them to define their terms and direct you to primary evidence. As "appetizing" as the gossip (websites) may be, they are divisive and do not edify the body; it's more like empty calories. Remember unless you are tasked with mediation, you still only have one side of the story. If you want to do something productive, pray for healing and reconciliation. Division is not from God. Redirect the individual to cast their burdens on the One that can handle it and heal their heart. Vengeance belongs to the Lord and God is still on the throne, Amen!
"Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers." ~ Ephesians 4:29
“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves." ~ Matthew 10:16
